What do you do when the thing you love—your art, your work, your creativity—starts feeling like a product? When the metrics of success get louder than the pulse of your own heart? In this episode, I sit down with Glen Phillips—lead singer of Toad the Wet Sprocket and a longtime Santa Barbara creative—for a conversation that meanders, deepens, and opens up space for something honest and healing. Glen shares how his music career took off at age 16, how he lost his way chasing the industry’s definition of “enough,” and how he found his way back—through community song, spiritual practice, Tuesday night yoga class, and a kind of effort that doesn’t grind, but flows. We talk about ambivalence in love and in art, the difference between performing and praying, and the moment when your work stops being about proving something—and starts becoming an offering.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• How Glen reclaimed music as a spiritual practice—not a commodity
• What wise effort looks like when you’re navigating depression, divorce, and reinvention
• Why singing in community is a form of healing—and how it changes the room
• The real meaning of ambivalence and how it shows up in love, creativity, and longing
• Why practice (not performance) is the path—whether it’s music, meditation, or marriage
• Tiny life shifts—that can help reset a low mood
• The difference between being “the performer” and becoming the song

And Glen closes us out with a song that may remind you—of yourself. This one is tender, brave, and a little timeless. I hope it meets you where you are.

Suggested Next Episode:

Episode 110: In This Moment You Are Enough with Ofosu Jones-Quartey

Related Resources:

• glenphinllips.com
• toadthewetsprocket.com
• How can therapists can bring creativity into their sessions to better serve their clients? Join Diana’s new program, Wise Effort: The Business of Therapy, tailored to help therapists develop their businesses creatively and effectively. 

Learn from Diana at an upcoming event

About Glen Philips:

Lead singer/songwriter for Toad The Wet Sprocket, solo artist and member of various side projects over the years. Still actively touring solo and with Toad. Awaiting grandparenthood.

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